00:00 Why the counter-intuitive way of making things harder (or more challenging) makes things more satisfying

02:30 Using exercise examples– how problem-solving during climbing engages Marina so much that she doesn’t notice how hard she’s working.

06:00 Shanna uses progress as a way to avoid boredom. Talks about rucking as a way of intensely engaging in walking or hiking.

09:00 Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and Flow — why making your work more challenging gets you into flow

11:30 This is somewhat like play, but you’re also raising the stakes

14:00 Use it as a “Choose-Your-Own-Adventure” — Even in the challenging straits of business

17:00 Shanna’s current challenge: Pulling out all my system-based knowledge out of her brain to share with a VA.